Wiggy-wack

Did you know that some people call turntables wiggy-wacks? David Crowder does. He's cool.
Anyway, I haven't heard back from Hamish and Molly yet. They are probably super-busy right now. I'll let you know when I hear from them. Does anybody have their phone number?
I did, however, receive a typed letter and a phone call from Mr. E. Richard Crabtree himself today. He's big on writing letters on paper, isn't he? I like that man a lot. He's great. Old guys are so cool...and I really do mean that. He wanted to talk about the trip and what we thought about some things. He seems very eager to help us out in any way. He also seems excited about the possibility of us being on a team together. He suggested to me that (if we wanted to) we should invite Jeff Metzger to our meeting on May 8th. He said Jeff might want to just be there to answer questions or at least just listen in on the conversation. I told E. Richard that what we might do is try to meet a second time in Cincinnati so we wouldn't have to ask Jeff to drive in Indy. Then he could be a part of that gathering. Do you guys think we should ask him to come to Indy, or just wait for later?

Hellloo out there..

Hello...Is anyone out there?! It's been kinda a quiet week out there. Maybe you all feel like me and just don't have anything super significant to say...not that that's ever stopped me before! Hope everybody is having a good week....our's is busy but school is almsot over for me! Yeah! I have also been helping out with an after school program downtown, kinda scary, very awesome, and the kids just break my heart but I love it...SOOO much. I really did almost pass out yesterday at the after school program. A girl fell on her face and broke her nose and was bleeding profusely and I was the only other teacher around so I hauled her down the hall to the nurses office but just my luck...the nurse wasn't there. Anyway, I did my best to clam her down and clean her up and then the nurse finally got in. The nurse started asking me what happened and I began to tell her...and all of the sudden I felt really light headed, and I couldn't see anything. My first thought was "just breathe Amy, you'll be okay". My next thought was "That was what you said last time right before you passed out". So I guess I turned white and started to kinda sway so then instead of taking care of this poor little girl with the smashed face, the nurse was sitting my down in front of a window and getting me something to drink. I made a smooth recovery after putting my head down for a few minutes and trying not to think of what I saw. I was really embarassed, but as least I didn't drop! So, add that to the list I suppose of things that make me pass out, little girls who smash their faces on the ground. You might as well just say anyone who smashes their face in the ground for that matter.
Enough about that! I hope you guys had a great weekend realxing and hanging out with fam. Looking forward to May 8th...Nate have you heard back from Big Mikey Thompson's son?
Have a good day everyone!

May 8th

May 8th is a go! My teacher is going to send me the final via email so I can do it that way!(That means tonight was my last class for that course!!!!!!!! WOO-HOO!!) We can probably get there about 5:00 if that works for you. I am looking forward to all of us being together. If it is easier for you, we don't care if we go out somewhere for dinner, I don't want to make you guys feel like you have to go through alot of work for that night. Sorry about my slowness in adding to Hector and Rori's book club...you know how I am new blogs. I did read Leadership and Self-Deception though,...wow, amazing book, see other blog for comments. I am taking a break from those church planting books right now becuase I don't want to overload and burn out for one and two I really wanted to read What's So Amazing About Grace by Phillip Yancey, I have heard great things and thought that it would be really good for me right now. Plus I had already started CPFTGU but it was a little hard because Joe and I were trying to share. Basically I am full of excuses! Anyway, Whitney and Joe, I hope you are ready to get your butt's kicked in ROOK, Nate and I rock in that game SOOOO much. Oh by the way, Joe and I have found a way to kind-of play it two player...it is kinda lame, but you'll have that.

Hide and Seek

Last night Amy and I got some bad news. Because of a moral failure a young, Christian, engaged couple with a bright future in life and ministry are stepping down from ministry and moving a wedding up by 6 months. They became pregnant. He is going to announce his resignation tonight at the church where he is a minister.

Amy and I don't know this couple very well, but it really made us sad. We wondered why we were so sad about this since we aren't really friends with the couple and they don't really affect our lives. I think we were upset because of the whole situation. It is sad to us when Christians are caught in their sin. Obviously we were upset that these Christians were in sin, but everyone makes mistakes. To us, the most devastating thing is that they hid it. They hid it from their families, churches, friends and I would assume everyone. After finding out they were pregnant they tried to convince their families that they should just elope (without saying they were pregnant) to try and cover the sin.

Numbers 32:23 says to be sure that our sins will find us out. We cannot cover or hide our sins. When this couple tried to hide their sins it hurt their future, their present, their parents, churches, youth group and future child. When we hide our sins it gives our enemy a foothold.

I think it is important, for us as a team, to repent of all of our secret sins. If we are hiding anything our enemy can use that as amunition when we least expect it. Leviticus 5 also says that when people sin and don't realize it, it is still sin. And when we realize that we have sinned in the past God still holds us accountable. I suggest that all of us pray that God shows us if we have any secret or even unrealized sin in our lives and when He graciously reveals it, that we repent. I am not suggesting that we share our laundry with our team, but we do find someone who can hold us accountable and share admit our sin and repent of it with a fellow Christian. It would be better for us to voluntarily repent and be forgiven then to hide sin.

I also think that we should start to pray about our own spiritual health for when and if we go to NZ. Bill Weber said most missionaries who fail fail because they don't work on themselves as Christians. I think maybe we should talk about how to continue to grow spiritually when we are 10,000 miles away from our normal support networks. I am sure that if God calls us all to be on the same team we will certainly help one another, but we will also need others. Maybe we should seek out wisdom of others who have been in similar positions.

I know that this entry is long, but I was really affected last night and I think God used it to remind Amy and I of His standards. I just wanted to share that with you guys, too.

Hamish and Molly

We got an email back from "Big Mike Thompson's" son and future daughter in law. Without further ado... taa daa!

Hey guys!

I must extend my sincere apologies. Molly and I read your e-mail, prayed, and then decided to get back to you as soon as possible. Then it slipped into the confused mess that is life right now. So I am sorry that we have not gotten back to you earlier.

I am glad that you enjoyed New Zealand, and I am glad that you still have a passion to serve there--it needs your help. I am sorry that the team dynamics didn't work out as planned. I would love to talk with you guys about what went wrong there.

As for our partnership, both Molly and I are excited about where this possibility could lead us. We would love to explore it further with you. I know that schedules are ridiculous, but I would like to make it a priority to meet up with you guys--maybe over dinner somewhere--and talk about it more. Just to throw out a date--how about Monday 8th of May? We are more than willing to come down to Louisville(?), if you guys want to pick the location. What do you think about that?

Did you say that the other couple (Nate and Whitney) are also maybe interested? Maybe all six of us could meet. Let me know what you think.

Thanks again for contacting us, and we are both sorry that we didn't get back to you. We hope that this e-mail finds you well!!

God Bless,Hamish and Molly

I was glad to hear back from them. Amy and I might be able to meet May 8, she is checking on that possibility. I think Hamish and Molly think we are from Louisville, but maybe they would be willing to meet in Indiannapolis or Danville if that would work for Rori and you two. I figure we should try to see Rori before her hair grows back. Well, check out that date and tell me what you think.

ice cream sandwiches

I heard back from Randall. He's good people. He said the nacc would be a good time for us to catch up with them.
It would be good to see Big Mike Thompson when he is here, also, but I don't know how likely that will be. His accent is the best. I love the kiwi accent. Joe, I love them SOOO much. Did you guys hear anything back from Hamish or Molly?

Just some thoughts

I was telling Joe yesterday that this Easter weekend was probably good practice for both of us for being missionsaries since neither couple was able to be with family. We had a nice weekend just hanging out with each other and catching up on things around the house. I am still reading the CPFTGU and still really enjoying it. It's making me think and rethink about alot of things. I think the biggest question that I have been asking God lately is why New Zealand, and if not there, where? I feel like God has been showing me such a need in Rochester and Springfield ever since we have been back from New Zealand. God has open my eyes to a lot of different needs that are right under my nose. I think that God has humbled me and really showed me why I am where I am at right now. I started realizing that each day I am in contact with the kinds of people that we say we want to minister to in New Zealand...uhh...Hello Amy...start here. It's not that I don't act Christ-like around them, but I think it's more I haven't made an effort to show them how Christ can change their lives and give them what they are lacking. I guess I have just assumed that they all know why I am who I am, but I think there is such a reason that God is directing certain people through my office each morning and in my classroom and to our church. I feel like God has been showing me that where I am now and the people I am in contact with now are a way to prepare me or even to see if I am ready. If I am not intentionally reaching out to these single young mothers and people at work who don't even know where they are going to get food for their family and students who have no affirmation or love at home and coworkers that have lives that are so far from the truth and that are so hurt and girls in my small group dealing with some tough stuff, then why has God lead me to these people and to these places. I feel like God is telling me that if I think I can go around the world with a passion to help these people I better step it up at home first. It has been really cool and it has also changed my attitude about some things. I have really been praying about where God wants me to be in this last year or however long that I am here. I have recently asked myself why I feel like God is telling me to leave and go so far away when I encounter this stuff everyday. The best answer I feel like I have recieved is that there are alot of people who are willing to live in Springfield, IL, but not very many are willing to move around the world. So right now, I feel like I am offereing God my willingness and trusting that He will use that for His purpose...starting now. So along with the "Planting" puns...the challenge I feel right now is bloom where you are planted.

Gag Factor

Well what a day my gag reflex had! After viewing that picture of the thing that Nate sent out...whew...on top of that he sent me an email that just said "Tarter, Tarter sauce". Then during lunch at work I heard a resident keep saying "I need tarter sauce with my fish, I like it lumpy with lots of cheese." Over and over she kept saying it, I had to shut my door! We always have fish on Fridays at the home-that's my favorite day by far.
The good news-I'm feeling better now. Whitney, Great idea about the NMC. We like to go to that and the dates should be great. We usually have a teen conference that weekend but it got changed to the week before this year! I've been reading the Chruch Planting from the Ground Up book and I am really enjoying it. There are alot of things that have stuck out to me and things that have made me think. I'm only in chapter 4...but I am trying to keep track of things and also pray about alot of the ideas that it gives me.
Before I sat down to write this I had a lot of things I thought that I wanted to say, but for some reason none of them are coming to mind.
A few last thoughts: I love this blog...so MUCH! I do not like how Nate knows how to make comments, send pictures, and do all kinds of things and I am still just learning how to make a post. I do like all of Whitney's comments, and I do like how I usually end up laughing out loud when I read the new posts (can be a little embarassing at times). I do not like the new picture of Nate because I think it makes Joe feel insecure and I do not like Rori's makeover...see the title of this post.
My green thumb has been busy learning about church planting and doing some real planting out in the yard this week-Joe, I love the pun.

Easter eggs

Happy Easter, guys! JESUS IS ALIVE!!

National Missionary Convention

Hey guys,
I don't know why I didn't think of this before...but it may be an inexpensive way for all of us to check out some Church Planting workshops, as well as meet more people from or interested in going to NZ. And we can all stay at our house...even Hamish and Molly if they would want to join us. (It would be Rory's dream come true!)
The National Missionary Convention is in Indianapolis this year (November 16-19). I looked on their Workshop Schedule (workshops are held on Friday and Saturday), and the following topics looked like they could be interesting for us:

• Multiplying Your Missions Dollars through Church Planting
• International Church Planting (at first I thought it said Intentional Church Planting, in which case it would really be for us)
• Church Plants and Short-Term Missions
• USA Ethnic Church Planting and Global Partnership
• Planting Churches Cross-Culturally
• Urban Church Planting
• The Importance of Working in Teams (might be good for us...it's taught by Doug Lucas, who helped start Team Expansion...he's usually a pretty good speaker)
• Planting Relevant Churches in a Post-Modern World
• Mini-Perspectives (good for Nate and anybody else who hasn't taken many Missions Classes...no offense, Nate)
• The Land Down-Under - Possibilities and Challenges

Those are just a few of the TONS of workshops that will be presented. You can look at the full schedule on the convention's website (www.nmc-windows.org/adult). I know it's a long time away, and we can still look at other conferences before this one, but I thought it might be worth checking out since it is so close. Registration is only $4 per person ($1 for Amy, since she is a student). Let me know what you guys think (especially if you agree with me)!

Idea...

Ok, well you know how we don't really have any idea whatsoever of how to plant a church? Well, I was thinking maybe we can be proactive about sharing that knowlege. I have been reading the Church Planting from the Ground Up, which is helpful and insightful, but it seems to assume that people have a knowlege of church planting to start out with. I thought maybe as we go along in this whole process we can record our thoughts, frustrations, insights, a time line, our questions about ourselves and our ability to plant and all of that stuff, and then put it into a packet/workshop/book kind of format to help other aspiring planters. I have started to think about a title and a cover illustration if we were to go with a book idea. It could be called Green Thumbs: for church planting newbies, both because we are "green" at church planting and because it refers to planting (church planting). I like when book titles have multiple meanings. Or it could be called bicbacbook. Also, the cover design could be a picture of the redesigned Nate.

Maybe it sounds dumb, but it was just a thought, tell me what you think.

Purpose Driven Planting Conferences

(See comment on previous - if you want, we can carry on specific conversations by commenting on comments. That keeps specific communication easier. Then, general or new conversations can be posted, then commented on some more, but it's not a big deal. It's really just bic bac bah).

So, here is another option. The good news: It's all about being INTENTIONAL and it's FREE!! The bad news: it's in San Diego...well I guess that could be good news too. It depends on how you look at it. It takes place July 11-12...AHH memphis meltdown!! I just looked at my calendar. I can't do it. I'm leading worship for mission indy that week. I'll post this anyway so you guys can look into it. There may be more conferences from them later, or you guys might want to go to this one anyway. Here the website: http://www.pdplanting.com/conference.htm. This is their mission: Training church Planters to start and grow healthy Purpose Driven Churches for this generation.

Still Learning

Well there sure has been a lot of activity on the blog lately-I think that's GREAT!! Nate- I'm glad to see you haven't changed much, though I have never seen you with glasses on, it's a good look for you. Also I didn't know about the comment thing...now that's really great. I went back through and read some...really just Nate's because no one else seems to use the comment button. About my sunglasses...Krista left her sunglasses in the van in St. Louis and I happened to bring an extra pair, which yes do make me look like a bug, but Krista preferred the other pair instead of the bug ones. So there you have it, those were my last resort sunglasses!
Now about this July conference. My family goes to the Ozarks every summer for a couple of weeks, well my parents do, and then the rest of us join them for a while. We were planning on going the 20-22 of July Thursday -Saturday. If this is the only conference that works though this might be more important. Joe and I will talk about it. If this works for the rest of the team then we can make it work. Thanks to all of you who are so proactive about finding conferences! Hopefully we will find one soon that works for all of us. Something else to keep in mind is how long Hamish and Molly are staying after they get wed. I have heard that Hamish's visa is only good for 30 days after that unless he renews it to get his masters...which he is thinking about.
Anyway...hope everyone has lovely evenings.

Mr. Randall Brooks

On a totally different note...the last I heard about the Randall situation was that you guys were going to email him and explain that you were still interested in coming to NZ. Did you ever hear back from him? I would like to send him an email just to say thanks for meeting with us and everything. Can I get his email address from one of you?

p.s. i love blogging. but we should also keep in contact via phone and real live visits so we don't forget what we sound and look like. thats important. we should be intentional about that. eh? here is my most recent photo in case you forgot what I look like. i took it this morning in the bathroom.

Another conference option...

Hey guys, don't forget to check to see if people have commented on your previous posts...that's where I reply to your posts most of the time.
As you may have read on my comments, Whitney and I can't make this conference in April, but there is another possibility that I wanted to tell you about. I actually looked at this one some months back when we were considering the NZ trip. It is a one day workshop - much closer - much cheaper - and there may be a good chance that ALL of will be able to make this one. It is at Granger Community Church near South Bend, IN on July 21st (Friday). It is a wired church conference if you have heard of them. It would take the Flammers about 4hr. 30min. to drive and about an hour less than that for us. We would most likely want to go up there that Thursday evening and stay the night since it starts at 8:30am the next morning. Check this website and read the cover article to see what it's about: http://www.wiredchurches.com/defaultStory.asp?storyid=80. I think it would be a good way to get our feet wet in exploring church planting. If we register 30 days before, the cost is $99 per person. If we register as a group of 2-5 it's $89 per person. And if we can get Hamish and Molly or another couple to register with us, it's $79 per person (for 6 or more). Not bad. This is much more doable for us. And it looks like a reputable worshop/conference. What do you think?

Note to Self...

...never use this color again.

Conference, Hamish and Molly

Ok, about the conference. I asked one of the elders at my church if it would be cool if I went to Florida for that week and he was like "yea, that's cool." So if I really want to I can. However, the love of my life, Amy Jo Flammer, will be up to her eyes in school, so she can not go. She is cool with me going, but I am going to see if some of my friends are going or are interrested in going so we can split a room cost and things like that (because I bet it would be wierd if I shared a room with you two). It will probably just get harder for Amy to go to a conference like this, so I might as well plan on one sooner without her than later without her.

Also, I emailed Hamish and Molly, (nate, I sent you a copy of that correspondance). But here is a copy of it for everyone's reference;

Hamish & Molly,

Hey guys, how are you? My wife and I met the two of you at the South Pacific Christian Fellowship meeting in Cincinnati back in February (our names are Joe and Amy Flammer). When we met you we were preparing to go to New Zealand on a survey trip. You told us to make sure and meet your parents and eat some of his specialty lamb. Well, I am pleased to inform you that we did meet “Mikey T” and we ate plenty of his amazing lamb. Our trip to NZ was awesome (kiwis are pretty cool people, as I am sure you are both aware). Hamish, God bless you for leaving that place to come to Cincinnati to prepare for His service.

We loved New Zealand and hope to go back and get involved in planting a church there. However, the team dynamics that we had originally planned on have changed and God is revealing his plan to us more and more.

After our trip Amy and I met with Jeff Metzger and Bill Weber and they mentioned that the two of you might be interested in talking with us about the possibility of some kind of partnership in the future. This was exciting to Amy and I and I think Nate and Whitney, one of the other couples, felt the same way.

I know that you two are probably inundated with your final semester at CCU, planning for a wedding and preparing for the next step in your lives, but we would love to hear from you and see what you think about this idea.

In Fellowship,
Joe Flammer

So there it is. I didn't think that you would mind me using your names. If you do I appologize. Hope to see you soon.

Church at a Church Plant Today

Hey Guys-
I stayed in Bloomington all weekend because we had alot going on up here with wedding showers for my brother and his fiance. My younger bro started going to a new church that was planted just last spring by some family friends of ours. It is right in Bloomington and Joe and I have heard alot about it from different people. Since I was here today I decided to go check it out. It was a very cool experience! It was cool to see all of the outreach that they do and how it seemed to be working. I was able to talk to some people about their experience at the church and got some good insight from that also. The church is right in between Illinois State University and Illinois Weslyan University so there was a very high college population but suprisingly enough there were some young families and some middle-age to older people. I wrote down all kinds of thoughts and questions throughout the service. I noticed that alot of people that were there used to go to other churches. I wondered (since the church is new) if these same people will switch churches again once this church has been around for awhile. I also wanted to ask what the target population group was and how they have seen their outreach work or not work. They were in the middle of some really cool and 'intentional' outreach programs for some of the people in the community.
There were probably over 100 people there today. We also have about 100 people that go to our church but today I saw 100 people that wanted to be there and had come there because of what was happening, not because it was a Sunday and church is just what you do. My mom said just six months ago there were only about 30-40 people that were going. When I told her that it was standing room only today she was amazed!
After church I was able to talk to Sue Berry, the pastor's wife and she had heard that Joe and I "had been around the world" doing mission stuff. She was very encouraging and helpful. She told me that we had to go to a church planters conference becuase if nothing else, it has helped them not to give up. She said that the conference taught them alot about what to expect and the best ways to deal with the things that come up. I talked a little with Dave Berry, the pastor and he invited me to email him and pick his brain about what they have done. I plan to take him up on that!
I think the coolest thing about the church was seeing a girl that used to be in our youth group. Last year before she left for college she got baptized because she felt like if she didn't get baptized that she was not commmitting herself to God. She felt like if she didn't completely give herself to God then, then it wasn't going to happen. We had some good chats about that before she got baptized. Her family makes fun of her for being a christian and she has not support. Anyway this girl was there! Yeah! I was so exited and proud of her to know that she made the effort to get up on a Sunday morning when no one was checking up on her. It was exciting because this church was reaching her and she was involved with the church. I was so thankful for this church for all of the people that were being touched through it, but more than that, it was helping Leslie to continue to grow and strengthen her faith. Through seeing her and talking with her it was evident that God was working through the leadership and the family of this church. (Jacob's Well Community Church)

Conference

Hey guys,

I just checked out the stuff about the church planting conference. It looks good, really good. I wish I could go and stay for all the speakers and workshops. Particularly one of the pre-conference workshops looks like it would be helpful for us (it was planning a church - start to finish including what your first Sunday will look like - I think it is a quick overview but it would be helpful). I don't know if we will be able to go. Hopefully, but Amy needs to look at her work calendar for April. We both have huge weekends (28-29). I have a children's retreat I am speaking at and Amy has her big volunteer banquet. I also am leading a group to a bread line on Saturday.

Yesterday I was talking to Amy's brother and he asked me what a church plant looks like. He wanted to know what our plan is and how you plant a church. I told him I had the same questions. Hopefully our books will be good to teach us that but I think a conference would be huge. Pray that if God wants us to go, we can.

got to go, it is 9:10 pm on Saturday and I have a lot of sermon to write still. Pray (retroactively) that it goes well, please. We have had some crazy things happen this week which put me behind. I am just taking a break right now.

Joe is right...

Joe is really, really good looking. I like his white teeth and even hair line in particular. Actually, this isn't Amy (she still can't figure out how to get started, so I signed her up).

I figured we had to get some ugly in to balance out all the good looking. J/K, I know I am very, very, good looking. However, unlike Nate I don't see that as my primary stregnth. I am really, really humble and I think everyone knows that is my biggest stregnth, although there sure are alot of others.

I like computers

I'm just posting this picture of Whitney so she can use it in her profile. She's so pretty.

We are no longer fugitives

The Wellington parking ticket has been paid online! No worries. Now we won't have to call the Law Offices of Booger, Booger, and Fartybutt. This is just fyi. Please don't try to help pay for this...I want to make up for almost taking your lives in Christchurch! Cheers.

Nate's #1 strength he brings to the team:

I am sooooooooooo good looking. Just kidding I'm just posting this picture so I can put it on my profile. I'm wasting waaayyy too much time on this profile stuff. It's fun, though.

Mmmmmmm...uh huh, uh huh, uh huh...mmmmm...

I love the name...bic bac blog. Okay, this will be a long one, but I promise they won't all be like this. I just want to get everyone up to speed and ask a question or two...
Yes, Whitney and I have ordered ourselves copies of said books. As I said to Joe on the phone last night, Whitney and I are going to move forward in the discernment process by studying up on church planting via reading and looking for some possible conferences. We would love to learn together with you guys and seek God's will side by side. From our talk last night, Joe, it sounds like our next action steps in this process (as couples) may be more similar than I thought. The conference that Jeff suggested is at the end of this month...April...that's why I said it may be too soon for us, although I think you said August, Joe. Check it out: http://www.startingchurches.com/. On the other hand, it does take place on a Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, so it could be a possibility for us if Whitney can be gone from the office. What do you guys think? Is it a problem with School for Amy? Whitney?
I am interested to find out where Hamish and Molly are in this process. Now that I think of it, though, they probably aren't thinking about anything other than getting married and going on a honeymoon right now. Perhaps it would be best to wait until all of that is over before someone contacts them?

I think that's GREAT!

Great idea, Joe.
Right now Nate and I are reading Church Planting from the Ground Up, as well as Leadership and Self-Deception by the Arbinger Institute. The latter is about team dynamics.
We are also looking into conferences that we might be able to attend this summer or fall. We'll keep you posted if we come up with anything good.

I think right now we are all trying to do some reading on the topic of church planting. Right now the main reading I am doing is Church Planting from the Ground Up edited by Tom Jones. Nate mentioned that you two are also reading this. I thought it might be helpful to try and share our thoughts about our reading and interact with the book, each other, and what God is teaching us.

Bic Back Blog

Hey guys,

Now we can get started with sharing thoughts and ideas! This can be a great way to keep in touch, don't you think? If this works maybe we can create a speacial blog for Hector and Rory.

Joe